some of these represent -- senators are representing defense contractors. they want to keep the bases in their state. they want to keep the contracts. some of them are just trying to score a political point, to attack the president as weak and naive and dangerous and even treasonous, as you just suggested. but many of them are just stuck in this cold war mentality and they can't break out of it. it's not just bayonets and battleships. it's nuclear weapons have a decreasing relevance to the threats we face today. but here you have these senators from the conservative wing of the party still clinging to this cold war arsenal, this cold war threat. so when they see somebody like chuck hagel, who's willing to question assumptions, who's thinking new, who wants to state what exactly would we use a nuclear weapon for, how many do we need, can we do with 400, do we really need, as you say, 5,000, that's very threatening to them and you saw that on display today. >> in terms of how they fit in to broader conservative politics on this, isn't it true that more sort o